discussion post

[bbcmusketeerskink]

This is the post where you get to chat.

Talk about anything you want, Musketeers related or not.

Be respectful, do not start wank and drama. If something does arise, please send a message to the account. I'll get to dealing with it as soon as possible.

This meme is an original vs. adaptations argument-free zone.

Mod contact post here: http://bbcmusketeerskink.dreamwidth.org/1356.html

Comments

Monsieur Bonacieux

[(Anonymous)]

The question of the day seems to be if he's misunderstood, an abusive and generally unlikeable character or perhaps even poorly written by Dumas himself.

Your thoughts...?

Re: Monsieur Bonacieux

[(Anonymous)]

I actually liked him the first bit of the story. He's kind of a dork, but you feel bad for him a bit because he clearly has no idea what to do with Constance, or women generally, and he's just so unaware that he's a man in the wrong genre.

Then he got all abusive and I was, N.O.P.E.

After that, I'm not really interested in explaining how an abuser is really a lovely guy. To make him work as a sympathetic character, for me, you'd pretty much have to retcon out the last three episodes.

Whipping in the military

[(Anonymous)]

We have a lot of fic referring to whipping being used as a disciplinary punishment.

I'm not referring to prompts here that specifically ask for whippings being included in that way (because if we can have mermaid AU's, we can have whipping too, right?), but fics including references to it for flavour, or just in a couple of throw-away sentences.

And here's the thing with it:

I thought corporeal punishment to keep discipline only became a thing with the rise of mercenary armies? Standing troops consisting of offspring of noble families, as is the case with this type of household guard we have on the show, would not have had their troops whipped as frequently or callously as implied in fic.

Is there somebody who can verify this? because, tbh my area of expertise is more 18th and 19th century and the navies rather than armies, so I might have gotten it all wrong, but the thought won't leave me alone. It just strikes me as not true to the period feel.

It might be an odd think to remark upon. Of all things that can throw you out of a fic, this is what keeps nagging at me? But it is, and I'd like to hear what someone who knows this stuff has to say about it? Pretty please?

Re: Whipping in the military

[(Anonymous)]

SA:

just to clarify: I'm specifically referring to the situation in France here. Other places in Europe handled things differently (esp. GB), but I was for a long while convinced that flogging was a pretty uncomming thing in France at the time.

Happy Birthday Santiago!!!

[(Anonymous)]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bm21hvvIYAAJVST.jpg:large

[(Anonymous)]

Can we have Athos whump without bastardizing Aramis and Porthos? Please??

[(Anonymous)]

I second this please. I found myself wondering if I'd even been watching the same show and characters as other people.

Question: Who lived where and how?

[(Anonymous)]

Does anyone know some handy online resources about what the households of financially well-off families or even minor nobles looked like during this period? Like who could afford what size lodgings, how many servants did they need/have. Things like that.

I know in the books just about every character has an apartment in Paris but that's clearly only for when these people (Aramis' lovers, the frondeurs, etc.) are staying in Paris (in order to be close to the court) and it's also not quite the group of people I'm thinking off.

What would their households specifically away from Paris look like? Would the better-off classes who don't own castles (so, not land-owning nobility like Athos and book!Porthos, but rich and well connected merchants perhaps?) live in the city/town centres or away from them? I know in later centuries the upper classes moved away from the cities to escape the industrialisation. This is clearly not the case in our musketeers' century, but these cities still stank. ;)

idea: free for all prompt post

[bbcmusketeerskink]

Ok. So out of the above discussion about some people feeling uncomfortable posting their more weird kinks or prompts dealing with harsh subject matters because of the large demand for trigger warnings, I've come up with an idea. But I want to sound it off some people before I go haring in.

The idea is, a free for all prompt post.

No mandatory warnings, no demands for them. The rules remaining being common respect (that means still no character bashing or prompts with hateful sentiments/language towards a group, even though the content of the story asked for may deal with these themes happening to characters in the story) and absolute respect for ALL kinks. (Run-on sentence, sorry, I hope it makes sense.)

What I'd need in return is the understanding from everyone that it's going to be a different space and place from the regular prompt post and an awareness that you WILL encounter things you don't like or have a problem with.

On these posts, my caution would be that if you see something you don't like you scroll past wordlessly and if you're easily triggered, then maybe avoid that post for the most part.

So... as I said, this is an idea. I'm not doing it just yet or making a decision until I've heard some opinions.

Re: idea: free for all prompt post

[(Anonymous)]

I think that sounds like a great idea. I would be happier to post on that thread with and more unusual/extreme kinks without having to worry people were going to be offended/judge.

A note that those prompts will not necessarily contain warnings should be sufficient for people to either use it and scroll past what they don't like, or ignore it altogether and stick to the other thread.

Definitely worth a try.

Would Athos have needed to join in the same way?

[(Anonymous)]

I know the tv series seems to have taken a different slant on the musketeers, which was I believe a regiment made up of the younger sons of the nobility.

So, do we take it that Porthos and Aramis, like d'Artagnan did something to catch the attention of the King that led to them being signed up for the musketeers. Whereas Athos, the 'undercover Comte' could have gone to Treville and signed up, or been invited to join, without needing to do anything specific to earn that right?

Re: Would Athos have needed to join in the same way?

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, from what I've read, having connections was the usual way of joining the musketeers. So yes, Athos wouldn't have needed to stand out as special.

Aspirants simply had to have the cash to support the lifestyle. Everything else -- letters of recommendation, being from a noble family, having had military training beforehand -- was more of a bonus than a requirement.

D'Artagnan in the books having to serve a couple of years with a different regiment first actually seems to go against how young most real life musketeers were (late teens) when they joined.

The musketeers however appear to have been a comparatively small corps throughout its history, so places were not always available which is why preference was given to sons of influential families.


So yes, Athos certainly would have had it easier than show!Porthos, and he would not have been an unusual recruit.

The show appears to be taking a lot more after the book in that regard, by putting d'Artagnan on trial like that. So if you wanted to include that, go ahead, it's canon for the show!

Show!Aramis might very likely have a noble background, like Athos, as priesthood was a common choice for younger sons. There might not have been any special feats for him to accomplish to join either. Especially considering he has already been a musketeer for at least five years and the show is taking place in 1630. So the musketeers would still have been a pretty new thing when he joined up.

Porthos definitely would have needed some help joining or to have caught the eye of the king/Treville (who on the show, interestingly, appears to be only commander the musketeers ever had), considering how he grew up with nothing.

Character Ages

[(Anonymous)]

Not sure if this has been discussed already or is posted anywhere already - if it has been then please by all means gently point me in that direction. :)

My question is, has it been said in canon already how the characters or no? I'm asking because anywhere I have seen so far says older man/men here and younger brother there, so I'm just wondering if it has explicitly stated anywhere about how old the guys (and gals) all are, (I'm fairly sure that I could be easily missing that information already)?

Or alternatively, what do you believe their ages to be in headcanon goodness? :)

Re: Character Ages

[(Anonymous)]

Exact ages aren't stated, no. But I'd tend to go with 20s ish d'Artagnan and 30s-ish Athos, Porthos, and Aramis, based on the actors.

Porthos canonically doesn't even know how old he is.

[(Anonymous)]

What's the thing that Aramis wears around his neck in addition to the Queen's cross?

[(Anonymous)]

A simple rosary (Catholic prayer beads)

Anonymous posting at AO3

[(Anonymous)]

For those who didn't know, it is possible to post your work anonymously to AO3 if you already have an account:

http://archiveofourown.org/collections/anonymous

Re: Anonymous posting at AO3

[(Anonymous)]

Oh this is wonderful!

Thank you for pointing it out!

Tumblr AO3 feed

[(Anonymous)]

I've just discovered you can follow a blog which posts every time a Musketeers fic is posted on AO3. Neat!

http://ao3feed-musketeers.tumblr.com/

Looking for a prompt

[(Anonymous)]

I think this is the right place to ask for help locating a prompt?

Um, so right I'm looking for a prompt featuring d'Artagnan and Vadim - possibly has the others in it, but these two were the main focus of the prompt. What I remember about the prompt is that Vadim takes one of d'Artagnan's fingers - I don't remember much else about the prompt other than that specific thing but that stood out to me and I don't remember which prompt post its in. I also don't remember if I have it bookmarked or not.

Any help finding it would be lovely fellow anons. :)

Re: Looking for a prompt

[(Anonymous)]

https://delicious.com/musketeerprompt

Should be able to narrow it down by characters? I don't think Vadim's shown up too many times.

Help me bust my writer's block, please...

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, history buffs... I only have one more chapter to write of the "Four Times Aramis Asked his Friends Not to Leave Him etc." fic, and I'm completely hung up on my ignorance of the way news from the Court was disseminated in 17th century France.

This is going to involve spoilers for the last part of the fic if anyone cares, btw.

--

--

--

--

--

So, let's say that Queen Anne miscarries in April 1631, as history states that she did. Would word of her illness and subsequent loss of the baby ripple outward immediately through Paris at the "speed of gossip"? Would it be hushed up, requiring some sort of insider go-between to get the knowledge out to Aramis so he can angst about it for purposes of the story?

Would it not be generally known, but still be reported to the Musketeers based on their service to the King, perhaps through Treville?

Help me out here, you guyz.

(Also, internet research turned up a single reference to someone on a forum reading a book written in Russian which stated that the 1631 miscarriage resulted from a fall from horseback. Can anyone offer supporting evidence, or, alternately, refuting evidence? All the material I could find in English is maddeningly vague on details.)

Re: Help me bust my writer's block, please...

[(Anonymous)]

I'm uncertain, but was leaning towards the idea that royal deaths (or royal miscarriages) would have been officially announced in some way.

To the readers and writers of non-con... (triggering)

[(Anonymous)]

I expect the replies to this post to be triggering as regards non-con

I've been thinking a lot about rape and non-con in fic recently, which historically is something I've been very hesitant to write myself. So I would very much like to hear from the people on the meme who do read or write non-con as to why they do so and what they personally get from it.

I am aware that this is a controversial topic in fandom as a whole, so to run the risk of being patronising, please type your replies carefully! The last thing I want to do is blow up the whole post and/or kick off a discussion about the ethics of writing non-con (which to be honest, I don't think will benefit anybody).

Re: To the readers and writers of non-con... (triggering)

[(Anonymous)]

Personally, I'm all about the hurt/comfort, especially sex-related hurt/comfort, and noncon is one way to dole out epic hurt.

Would you mind explaining why you're asking? Presumably it's not your intention but your post comes close to kink shaming.

Aramis

[(Anonymous)]

Looking for ways to love Aramis again. I adored him through the whole beginning, but the Annamis plotline in the last two episodes made me upset. I ship him with Porthos, and excluding him made it more sordid than Aramis's other affairs.

I want to love Aramis, like I did before, but every time fic is on his side not Porthos's or makes everything about Aramis's pain or the baby I sort of flinch inside.

How do I get to where I can forgive him for the stuff his character is doing? Are there any fics where Aramis apologizes for sleeping with the queen?

Re: Aramis

[(Anonymous)]

Well, if it helps, assuming Aramis and Porthos were in a relationship, it would have to be an open one based on what is portrayed in the show. Porthos very nearly left the Musketeers (and by extension, Aramis) to marry Alice, and Aramis did not act like a betrayed lover. In fact, he was the one who got them together in the first place. He was taken aback and slightly hurt when it looked like Porthos might leave, but it was not remotely the reaction of someone whose lover had cheated on him.

And, of course, the reason for hiding Aramis' indiscretion from Porthos and d'Artagnan is to protect them from retribution should the affair be discovered. For what it's worth, I guarantee that the whole mess will come out in series 2, with appropriate fallout and subsequent reconciliation.

French geography and the Big Bang plot bunny that won't behave...

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, so basic research has shown me that a) book Athos had a castle near Blois, b) while "Comte de la Fère" is a made-up title, La Fère is a real place... but it's way the heck on the other side of Paris from Blois, and c) you would not stumble upon either of these places while transporting a prisoner from Le Havre to Paris, because they're in completely different parts of the country.

Can anyone shed light on this paradox, or do I just need to ignore it and write the damn story, to hell with geographical accuracy?

Re: French geography and the Big Bang plot bunny that won't behave...

[(Anonymous)]

I know nothing about geography, so I'm afraid I can't -be of help, but I can say for that reason geographical accuracy wouldn't bother me ;)

Porthos centric hurt/comfort

[(Anonymous)]

I want to write some. Anybody have suggestions?

Re: Porthos centric hurt/comfort

[(Anonymous)]

I think if you read through some of the prompts in both round one and round two, you'll find several unfilled Porthos centric h/c prompts. Probably the best place to start.

Annulment

[(Anonymous)]

Historian nonnies? Catholic nonnies? My knowledge of annulment largely stems from Wolf Hall and reading the examples I've found from the church online doesn't quite cover what to do if you've married Milady.

Assuming that, for plot reasons post S1, Richelieu was minded to help free Athos from his marriage, would there be grounds for annulment on the basis of error of person/fraud?

Alternatively, if the cardinal claimed his spies had intelligence that she was dead, would they need to do anything else to declare the marriage over?

Re: Annulment

[(Anonymous)]

I studied a later period of French history, so I'm not sure how much help I can be. However, I did recently watched a programme which discussed the Catholic church and marriage up to the English Reformation, which obviously France didn't have, so similar rules may have applied there for a longer period.

It said that the church made it deliberately easy to get into a marriage and as hard as possible to get out of one. However, it did mention a woman who had been married for twenty years, who appealed to the church courts, and she was able to get a separation, though not a divorce. Her husband had been unfaithful, and she brought witnesses to testify to that. (Colleagues of her husband, who was a court physician.)

Sorry, this is a bit long winded, but it seems likely that divorce would have been difficult, annulment may have been possible I guess if it could be proven that she lied about her identity. After all, the person he married didn't actually exist

Book Question

[(Anonymous)]

How many different times do the musketeers faint?

I know Athos passes out at the beginning, and Aramis gets wounded then flogs himself. Are there others?

Re: Book Question

[(Anonymous)]

d'Artagnan in chapter LXIII/63 (a very upsetting moment towards the end of the story).

On the subject of Aramis/Anne

[(Anonymous)]

I know this is controversial, sorry, I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just looking for some sign that I'm not all alone in feeling like this :(

But given the recent interview with Hodges, where he implies that they're continuing with the whole Aramis/Anne thing.

Is anybody else out there *not* happy about it?

I know a lot of people are shippers, and that's fine. Looks like it'll be an awesome season two for them. But personally I feel quite gloomy about it, and I just wondered if any one else shared my feelings. (Or if I'm just alone in my anti-romantic musing ;)

Re: On the subject of Aramis/Anne

[(Anonymous)]

Hi,

You're not alone! I don't dislike it, exactly. But I hope it doesn't detract from the main action. Also, I could probably have done without the baby side-plot.

Just a little love

[(Anonymous)]

Alright, I admit it, I think I need to get a little squee back in my life. If anyone's game, show me the love. I'd love to hear about...

- Anything you're excited about for season two.

- Favorite moments from season one.

- Fanfictions you love, have read more than once, or... hell, even a wip fic you're obsessing over or dying for someone to continue.

Just a little love, por favor!

Re: Just a little love

[(Anonymous)]

I'll bite. In season two I'm looking forward to any and all brotherly shenanigans. Looking forward so much to the humor. And I'm really excited about Rochefort.

I could go on and on about my favorite moments from season one. But, I'll start with Aramis. He had me before he even showed up on screen. And, well, then Athos put his head in a bucket of ice, and Porthos smiled, and I was kind of gone for all of them.

As far as fanfiction goes: Whiplash has some wip fics that I'm really anxious to see finished, especially "Callooh Callay." I'm hoping "Dappled is the Moon" by Mylos gets continued. And I've re-read "And I Alone Have Escaped To Tell Thee" by Sodakey, multiple times. There are actually a lot of fics I've read multiple times. There are some great modern AU's I've been sucked into fully and completely and in ways I never ever expected. Loving following along with those!

Might actually have to go read some of those again, right now.

Oh, and, loving Jevvica's stuff. Cunien. xsnarksthespot. I could go on. And on. And on. ;)

Do your own emotions shape the direction a story takes?

[(Anonymous)]

This is probably an obvious question, but do those of you who write fanfic find that the way you're feeling in a particular moment has an influence on the direction your story takes?

If you're angry, sad, frustrated, happy etc. Do you think that has an effect on what you write and how you write it?

Have you had stories take a completely different turn from what you had planned because of how you have felt? Do you think your emotional state spills over into how you have a character react in a particular scene for example?

Or are you able to enter a kind of writing zone, leaving all outside stuff behind, just focusing on the story?

Re: Do your own emotions shape the direction a story takes?

[(Anonymous)]

Hmmm. I might have to think about this more before I fully answer, but as a quick response I've become very aware through the years that if I'm writing about a character getting sick or taking ill, I can't do it while I'm sick or ill, or even just if I just have a slight headache. I have no idea why.

Fic Mountain is live!

[(Anonymous)]

And with Musketeers fics!

http://archiveofourown.org/collections/NightOnFicMountain2014/tags/The%20Musketeers%20%282014%29/works

Re: Fic Mountain is live!

[(Anonymous)]

For the uninitiated newbies... what's a fic mountain?

Question regarding locked doors...

[(Anonymous)]

If someone was staying in rooms in Paris during the musketeer time period, if they were not all that salubrious, would they be furnished with a lockable door?

I need a character to enter someone's quarters and take them by surprise, which rather excludes knocking. They could shoot it open or kick the door in, but again, not very discreet.

Is it possible the door wouldn't be locked?

Re: Question regarding locked doors...

[(Anonymous)]

Is there a reason why the character inside would have locked it?

Whovians, Treckers (treckies) - what would this be - Muskies?

[(Anonymous)]

Not trying to insult, trivialise or demean anyone with this. But had a thought what fans could be called.

As mentioned above there are Whovians so what could Musketeer fans be?

Muskies
Musketerians
Teers

What?

Re: Whovians, Treckers (treckies) - what would this be - Muskies?

[(Anonymous)]

Muskovites?

(Also, it's Trekkie/Trekker, with two k's)

;-)